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the first first graph first two graphs I

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showed showed that there is no apparent

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beneficial effect of the drugs and

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another peculiarity is that here you

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have an infectious disease that doesn't

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kill the very young and the very old in

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the way most diseases do it kills

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primarily people who are in the prime

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years of adulthood and I don't think

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that makes any sense I think I have time

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to talk about the skewness effect what

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does testing HIV positive actually mean

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testing HIV positive says there is some

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sort of immune system response and it's

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extremely nonspecific you may test HIV

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positive if you've just been vaccinated

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for flu if you have tuberculosis you're

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almost certain to test positive on these

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tests the ability of the immune system

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to respond like that appears to be the

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maximum around 40 years of age and in my

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book I summarize the way in which a

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chart testing HIV positive varies with

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age and this summarizes a great number

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of groups prisoners blood donors gay men

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what have you decreased from birth into

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the teens maximum in middle-aged males

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testing positive more frequently than

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females except in the lower teenage

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years when females tend to test positive

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more often than males but it is not

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always the same cross-section of the

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population that gets tested for HIV and

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in the early 80s the people who were

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being

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Stud were largely gay men who either

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were already ill or thought for good

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reason that they were in danger of

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becoming ill and so instead of instead

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of this more or less normal curve for

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testing positive you had a shoulder on

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the left here at younger ages the

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shifting skewness to the to the at to

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later ages deaths at later ages in the

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more recent years are because people of

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all ages not necessarily ill are being

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tested more and more frequently so that

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shoulder on the lower age side

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disappeared but if you test HIV positive

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the mainstream view is you've got a

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deadly infection that requires you to be

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treated with antiretroviral drugs and

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those drugs are incredibly toxic don't

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take my word for it read the treatment

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guidelines he is the latest version

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available on the NIH website the risk of

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several non aids-defining conditions

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including heart liver kidney and cancer

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is greater than the risk for AIDS if you

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are on antiretroviral treatment you are

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more likely to die from the drug side

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effects than you are from the disease

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for which you're supposedly being

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treated so the rates of death among

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hiv-positive people have gone up because

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of these additional causes of death drag

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induced and these drugs produce death

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only after a decade or so and so the

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curve the age distribution of deaths

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from HIV disease has grown a shoulder

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has been skewed to later ages because of

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the antiretroviral treatment thank you

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and I had a timer to I also want to

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thank Karen and Tom Dykstra for prodding

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me into the PowerPoint age and and Mike

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Wilson for personal tutoring in it do we

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so in your data if you appear to make

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the assumption that all the people who

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have tested positive for aids are also

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receiving the treatment for AIDS I'm not

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sure that that's the case in fact if

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they do receive the treatment they might

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not appropriately take the treatment

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with the advertised effect of the drugs

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that you're going to get a 10 to 15 year

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lifespan and you're just looking at

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deaths and we just started in 15 years

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ago it's quite possible that it's a

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bimodal distribution or a try model

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distribution we have those people who

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are not receiving the treatment dying

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those people who maybe are take the

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treatment but aren't in the the subset

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of population that the treatment effects

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die and the people who are receiving the

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treatment haven't died yet so and I'm

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not sure if I agree with your

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explanation of the shoulder your trend

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showed it from 2004 2000 was getting

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larger and then you just explain the

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shoulder as being a effect of the drugs

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actually killing the people I'm not sure

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they would can you respond to that place

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right the everyone in the United States

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gets free treatment for AIDS we don't

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have socialized medicine except in the

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case of hiv/aids so in the United States

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not globally but in the United States

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everyone who gets tested for HIV or who

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has clinical aids gets free treatment

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yes Henry I just wanted to ask you um in

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your opinion are the other physicians

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misdiagnosing people with the disease of

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AIDS regardless of whatever may cause it

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because there is a great deal of

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controversy on the various causes of the

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disease including whether it is the via

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the HIV virus or other you know maybe

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nutritional immuno causes and that type

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of thing what's your opinion on

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physician physicians are in a dreadful

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situation because they have to accept

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what the official point of view is

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and so if there are people who they

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suspect of being HIV positive they take

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the samples send them to a lab and have

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to accept the lab results if they're

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positive they have to follow the

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official treatment guidelines the issue

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of what actually caused AIDS is really

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complicated by the fact that the

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definition has changed progressively

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from 1987 on and the diseases that are

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now classed as aids are very different

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from the ones that were the original

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1980s aids and the biggest change came

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in 1993 the Centers for Disease Control

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said anyone who's hiv-positive and has a

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certain immune system cell count less

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than 200 cells per milliliter has AIDS

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no other country in the world accepts

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that definition so if you have AIDS in

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the United States for that reason you

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can go to Canada or Mexico and you don't

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have AIDS anymore and seventy percent of

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the u.s. AIDS diagnosis are on that

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basis Henry several years ago we had a

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really interesting speaker on this

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subject can't remember the man's name

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Ruth Bernstein yeah and no Ruth yeah

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yeah and what was identified there was

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about a dozen cofactors that were some

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were strong and some were weak have you

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included the cofactor and from that list

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in there in any way or is that just too

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much work I I don't believe that that

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was actually the the cofactors are

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actually the cause of AIDS and since

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writing the book I've had a

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communication from a gay man who's been

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positive and healthy for 15 years

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because he identified the cause of the